The combination of skills you talk about sounds very much like TAT (www.tat.se). (and yes, I'm biased ;)

Hey Caterina,

I usually don't jump in and usually agree 100% with your posts but this time I am not in your camp.

First of all I do not believe that there is a lot of engineering talent in NYC suited for startups. Most of the tech folks in NYC are still Wall Street and its different mix of skills and interests in life.

Secondly, traditionally engineers have been thought of as geeks, hackers, people who love staring at black unix screen with arial 8px, doing Nintendo on Fri/Sat/Sun and most importantly folks who can't talk.

This used to be an NYC condition, but rather global. I believe that it has been changing globally as well. More and more tech folks are becoming multi-disciplinary and less shy around the web and around the world.

To your point about people in the valley having great design taste ability to blog and to also write a lot of code, I think only a handful of people are able to do all these things and in reality when you try, you never do any of it as well.

From personal experience, it is hard to blog and code and run a company and stay on top of trends and check twitter and spend time with a family. Something has to give and I recently realize that you need to pick stuff and focus on what is going to make the most impact.

Alex - you said
"First of all I do not believe that there is a lot of engineering talent in NYC suited for startups. Most of the tech folks in NYC are still Wall Street and its different mix of skills and interests in life."
I think Caterina (and I) would agree former Wall Street engineers are generally unsuited for startups. But we find more and more young engineers moving to the city just to work in tech (google or startups).

Great blog. I can relate because I am from the San Francisco social space. There is some great people and most importantly, mingling that happens that builds the ecosystem for social networks.

cheers,
mytweetmark.com

Great post.... I'd have to agree; it's the Goldmines that make or break a startup and they are tough to find just like gold :-0
I can't believe you did not mention Seattle :-)
Warm wishes

Hi Caterina,
Nice post. I heartily agree with your conviction that the multidisciplinary approach often works best at start-ups (and in actually many professional roles). Being involved with a lot of multidisciplinary IT work myself and coming from a non-engineering background, I do often feel a little unappreciated or threatened by the fact that I can't boast a hardcore engineering background. In job listings I often find that it is the hardcore engineering background that is posted as a requirement (not that I really apply for jobs but I sometimes look at the listings out of curiosity).

It is kind of the eternal debate about whether specialization is better than trying to be multidisciplinary. We need specialized people and we can not all be multidisciplinary.

And even trying to be multidisciplinary is darn hard (I agree with Alex's comment). So I know a little Python, so I know a little Javascript (jQuery mostly), I am well-versed in HTML and CSS, I know my way around Photoshop and UI design and I keep track of what is hot on the Internet. But does that make me a multidisciplinary person? And am I truly any good in any those things in particular. The only argument that I can make myself is that understanding many different technologies helps in being a "consultant" or in being a entrepreneur/business owner.

How would you say I should deal with this? Thanks.

I'm originally from Boston but my twin degrees from UC Berkeley in Japanese (E Asian Studies) and Computer Science have stood me in good stead.

I can actually say that I've used both of the things I studied in college, and extensively, at the workplace.

And I never would have guesses that the knowledge of French that I acquired living in Paris a long time ago (I lived later in Tokyo) would come in handy in some work environment - but it has.

There has to be some word for someone who is both a broad generalist but can also very intensively specialize. The latter, for one, say OLAP. I'm not sure that 'polymath' quite gets what I intend.

Alex, no self-respecting geek uses a terminal window "with arial 8px". Monospace, man!

Not being in this particular field I have never considered the cross training (or at least cross abilities) that you need. I have, however, noticed a similiar lack in the more "traditional" engineering fields.

I've known very good mechanical, civil, and electrical engineers that were so focused on their own disipline that they were only able to work in theoretical fields. If they were ever required to work in a place where they are "The Engineer" they were completly lost.

I think what we are seeing is the difference between trained engineers and born ones.

You're hiring people from MIT and you're wondering why they aren't multidisciplinary?

You're hiring people who had to focus solely on one thing to get where they are today.

Perhaps if you tried hiring some "Slackers" who wasted their time trying new things, you'd get multidisciplinary.

It's not that they're hard to find in NY, it's just that hiring practices, INCLUDING YOURS, have forced them to hide that part of themselves just to be employable.

Here's an idea, blow off the higher education requirements completely. Look for people by what they've accomplished.

"Great Engineers - where are they?"

At least part of the answer might be found in a story coincidentally linked on Instapundit not long before yours (congrats, btw).

Candy-ass vice-principal calls the bomb squad over an 11-year-old's science project, recommends counselling for the student

This happened at a school that emphasizes technology, no less.

Why do we use the terms "engineer" and "tech", without qualifiers, to identify software engineering types only? I'm a mechanical engineer. I design and develop laser-based chemical sensors. Isn't that technical? Am I an engineer? Do people really think the only engineering left in the world is devoted to Playstation?

Engineers? Are we talking about learned professionals with PE licenses or database programmers with a lot of time on their hands? NYC has an enormous pool of young (read “inexperieced and untested”) and qualified (read: “licensed and experienced”) engineers at work designing and building inportant things... Is there a need for another flicker?

I'm confused. Are you asking for true engineers, or are you using the term 'engineer' to refer to a computer programmer? Because there are very few ABET-accredited, PE software engineers in the world, no matter where you live.

Since when are software designers "engineers"? Engineers build real things, not virtual ones. The guy who designed the computer the software runs on is an engineer, not the guy who writes the code.

Have to agree with Erikz. I've noticed over and over in my career that engineers who graduated with really high GPAs have to have their hands held in order to accomplish anything.

I have a good friend at a top law firm who notices a similar pattern in law. She says that when you meet a Harvard Law grad there's 2 things you know about them: that they'll tell you within 5 minutes that they went to Harvard, and that they're incapable of actually practicing law.

Caterina,

I agree with Erikz. You need to find folks who have dabbled in a lot of tech/business areas. Also, those who have stumbled and risen again to try new ventures.

Another factor is that there are less people in engineering and tech due to a variety of factors, such as the recession and the outsourcing trend. Among the tech community there is a sense that they are disposable and therefore should seek a different career path. There have been quite a few articles in recent weeks that have outlined that problem.

Caterina, engineering isn't all software engineering. When interviewing engineers for RF hardware development, I found that engineers that also repair and modify cars tend to have good lab skills. I would guess that having hobby cars and a garage full of tools would be extremely expensive in NYC.

The most important factor in the success of a startup hub is the presence of multiple employers in related fields. I've worked for 3 separate startup companies in the Richardson, TX Telecom Corridor area. With many other employers in the same area to fall back on, it's easier to take a chance on a startup.

There are probably better engineers in Detroit than in NYC or Boston. You name the technology and it's probably being used by the auto industry one way or another.

Great (Software) Engineers - where are they?

The ones staying at The Hotel California
are planning to check out soon, with the
Escape From New York a little later, all
headed for Austin, where prudent startups
site their backups.

Said startups will be shifting the target
of their consumer products from luxuries
back through wants, to needs, following
the decline of the economy, and the drop
in discretionary income.

Software has come a long way from the Day,
when Uber-Geeks stared at the wall all day,
then spent all night cranking out code, and
did not want any interference from managers
who could not sight-read a punched-tape
second-stage bootloader; The managers put
up with this because no software design tools
had yet been invented, and individuals who
could perform the equivalent functions in
their heads were rare, and more than a
little odd.

It appears that the sort of consumer oriented,
Web-based Start-up your employees produce needs
multitalented multitaskers with scripting skills
more than single-minded specialist programmers;
Better to selct for the MM, and add the scripting,
than to try and broaden the focus of a bit-bumper.

If new software is central to the effort, if it
is necessary to build tools rather than use them,
then a hard-core coder is called for, along with
a person who can translate from standard English
to the software specification dialect; This is
the origin of the cartoon showing a distraught
pointy-haired manager pulling his peaks and
groaning: "Oh, My God, you did exactly what I
told you to do !"

As to future prospects for smart schoolchildren
growing up to be engineers:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/berkeley-high-
may-cut-out-science-labs/Content?oid=1536705

The deliberate downgrading of education for the
Talented and Gifted, is even more damaging;
These budding geniuses need all the TLC and
encouragement they can get, not the neglect,
if not outright contempt, of teachers and
administrators.

Which brings me back to your next startup,
a CyberSpace meetingplace/training ground
for future scientists, engineers, and
creative people in general; Perhaps you
can get a franchise from J. K. Rowling. :)
After all The University of Texas is copying
its campuses to Second Life; Why not set
up a Wizard Academy as well ?

If I'm a guy with multiple talents, and deep engineering skills, I want to do my own thing. Why should I work for somebody else?

Hi,
I find your post interesting. I've been through a couple of startups and I agree that multi-dis is very valuable. The major challenge we've had with such talented people is they can get entangled in too many things at once and don't always make progress in the areas that are priorities. Yes, that's where good management comes in. And it is a regular process to keep these gifted creative people focused on just a couple things each day.

I would like to offer a bit of advice on the linked job posting. I recommend replacing the word "problems" with something like "challenges". It may seem like I'm being pedantic, but if someone looks for problems, they will always find more. We've found it better to look for solutions. And so we recruit people who are looking for those solutions.

Good luck on your projects. :)

This MIT alumna, Cali-bred transplant to NYC, couldn't agree with you more.

Typical want ad: BS degree required, Masters preferred.

In other words, we don't want people with a little training and a lot of practical experience.

Yet when I task engineers with building prototypes, it's usually an exercise in hand holding. I'll them to sketch out a circuit, breadboard it, mount it in a plastic housing, build and attach a harness, install it in the application, and test it.

I can usually see their oh-shit meter go to 11.

But you give this task to some high school hacker and they're delirious with enthusiasm over all the possible ways to construct this.

Those are you interdisciplinary "engineers".

This is all semantics, but this is a very confusing post from the perspective of a professionally licensed engineer. According to the National Society of Professional Engineers, a Engineer is someone that has received a BS degree from an ABET accredited four year course, passed the Fundamentals of Engineering exam, worked four years under the supervision of a Professional Engineer (PE), and then passed the Professional Engineering exam.

Software engineers are no more engineers than custodial engineers are engineers. They are software programmers. The only legal exception to the use of the engineering title is locomotive engineers.

It's maybe just semantics, but the profession of engineering takes a lot of both formal education and real world experience to become proficient in any specific, specialized field of engineering. There is simply too much information to know across the engineering profession at large to be proficient in more than one specialized field of engineering. Being a jack of all trades in the engineering profession will get people killed. For example, you don?t want a chemical engineer designing the structure of a building anymore than having a structural engineer working for a pharmaceutical company.

Talent like that is so hard to find anywhere. There is no specific history you can look for. I've worked with many and they have been all over the map: mid-west high school dropouts to MIT grads and everything in between.

The best way of finding these people is through genius creators who know other genius creators that are looking for work. But that's even harder find.

I've worked in small and large enterprises and agree with the sentiment. Multi-disciplinary employees in large companies may be appreciated, although some may end up there out of resistance to going deep even when necessary, but when it comes time to find someone to throw off a foundering ship, they go. I once had a multidisciplinary friend who struggled to stay on in a big company when it seemed obvious he would thrive in a small one.

You don't mention the other challenge with hiring NYC developers vs CA. Overly professionalized.

Particularly folks coming out of finance and large corporate media have their whole understanding or risk/value of out whack to how a startup (or a start-up-a-like like Etsy) has to tackle their problem.

So yeah, it's all culture hacking. Tho thankfully the (arguable) success of project like Facebook and their move "Move fast, and break shit" mantra is making others more comfortable with the realities that successful startup have always known.